IN CONVERSATION WITH INDUSTRY'S KONRAD KAY & MICKEY DOWN

I’ve been watching INDUSTRY since the show premiered in 2020 and have been singing its praises to everyone around me. I’m so honored to have a conversation with the best dressed showrunners in the game right now and HBO’s latest Sunday darlings! I spoke to Konrad Kay and Mickey Down about their favorite fashion moments on their very finance heavy show, stepping behind the camera to direct as a duo, what makes corporate graphic design so attractive, wearing big suits, their favorite brands and stores to shop at, and so much more.

Hagop Kourounian: Why do you think your show has resonated so heavily with the fashion world?

Mickey Down: On a surface level the costumes in the show can be seen as quite drab, gray, or uniform to use a word that has a double meaning in this context. Me and Konrad bring a level of specificity to the whole show but especially in the way these people dress. We wanted it to feel very authentic to this world and place. That might be like what people wear in the bank, the way the younger people dress in the bank next to the people who are slightly more advanced in their careers, but also the way people dress in London. Me and Konrad are very interested in that stuff, we feel responsible for it. We’re very involved alongside the costume designer, Laura Smith, in making those decisions. If I see someone wearing the wrong tie, the wrong pair of shoes, the wrong pair of glasses, or the wrong watch, that draws me out of it immediately.

Konrad Kay: I think it might be a cultural thing more than just clothes as well. Even though it’s about the banking world, fashion people see a twinning going on in terms of trying to show taste and trying to earn money. The fashion world has a certain level of exclusivity, a certain level of internalized snobbishness which is very much like the banking world. Those are kind of like cultural parallels that almost have nothing to do with clothes.

Mickey Down: I also think the fashion world, especially the online fashion world, is a lot of ‘if you know you know’ and I think this show is ‘if you know you know’ because it’s a small audience. An exclusive audience in that respect, by the nature of it being small. People have a sense of ownership over the show and I feel like that’s reflected in the way people experience stuff online as well. This is the lamest version of this but it’s the original hipster mentality which is like “this thing that I understand and no one else does” which is a huge thing in fashion and probably has been projected onto our show.

Konrad Kay: That’s true…

Hagop Kourounian: What are some of your favorite fashion moments on the show?

Mickey Down: The purple hoodie was a fashion moment that became great in retrospect. At the time it was like let’s just design the silliest, most outré, tacky corporate hoodie we could possibly come up with. We wanted to put Eric in a really silly outfit. I think he’s wearing cargo combat shorts and this long oversized purple hoodie but for some reason it resonated with people. Virgil Abloh saying he needs this hoodie is ridiculous because it’s a hoodie we came up with in about five minutes. Somebody anointing it as THE hoodie made it the thing that a small subsection of people wanted to own. I do think it looks sick when I look back on it now, it’s a great color.

Mickey Down: There’s tiny tiny details that people noticed in Season 1. The way Greg wore suits with side adjusters rather than belt loops or that he would never wear black with brown shoes, or Eric would wear suit belt loops that are slightly too short. Those are all considerations that me and Konrad were talking about. This is not a reflection of success but the fact that two people on reddit were like ‘oh they got that right’ gives me gratification because we’re obsessed with specificity. Season 3 we had an amazing costume designer in Laura Smith who really cared and got us collaborations with big brands and brands that the characters actually wore for the first time. Season 1 and 2 that was not the case, we had to scrimp and save a little bit more. So we had Sweet Pea, the new character, in a lot of Bottega, we had Rishi wearing a Rolex Submariner for the first time whereas before he was probably wearing stuff we wouldn't have worn. Hermes, they were very very good. We had a whole scene in an Hermes shop in the first Season which we cut, which is probably a good thing because they finally allowed us to use their clothes in Season 3. You’ll notice that whenever anyone is doing drugs or having sex the Hermes tie is off… Which was actually quite a fucking hard thing to deal with in the edit.

Konrad Kay: I like all the merchandise from institutions that no longer exist. We had Lehman Brothers in Season 2 we have Bear Stearns in Season 3. I literally just changed out of a Merrill Lynch jumper that I picked up at Fantasy Explosion in Brooklyn. Any old defunct financial entity I just love collecting their stuff I don’t know why. It’s a nice thing to have in the show. To me it always plays like a good joke that a billionaire would be wearing a Lehman Brothers t-shirt.

Mickey Down: I also like the running joke of Yasmin’s caps in Season 3. It speaks to her character being slightly tone deaf that she’s trying to be incognito but she’s wearing a St. Moritz cap for a very specific toboggan run. We like the idea that she’s like ‘fuck I need to wear a cap’ and they’re either St. Moritz or St. Barth’s or in her lowest moment she’s wearing a cap that says ‘Save Water, Drink Negronis’ and it was an easy laugh but it quite spoke to her character a little bit.

Hagop Kourounian: This season so far is heavily focused on Lumi, Kit Harrington is constantly in Lumi promo swag. What is it about corporate graphic design that people are so attracted to and why is it so popular in the vintage t-shirt world? 

Konrad Kay: I think a lot of it is design-led. The Pierpoint logo, the font, the tagline is so incredibly strong. I think that’s part of why the purple hoodie did so well. The size of the logo, the old world font that conjures up something that’s a bit more 80s and 90s than modern day. Salomon Brothers is another defunct logo that when we were gonna start a production company we wanted to take the font of that to make our own logo. Something about the 80s and 90s really punches through, that’s why I think so many people think that stuff is cool again now. It’s cyclical. I also think it’s also about wearing a piece of history, there’s an internal irony to wearing stuff like that. Especially about a place that went bust.

Mickey Down: It’s a wink isn't it? There’s a sense of nostalgia as well. It’s like a finance bro in 2024 is wearing an old Salomon Brothers t-shirt or bag, it’s like thinking about a time when finance was actually cool. When it was a cool part of the culture, when it was bombastic. Those financial meme pages are just trying to hark back to a time when bankers were alpha and people who worked at Saloman Brothers and Morgan Stanley feel a lot more alpha than people who work at Deutsche Bank in 2024. It’s another marker of this thing that’s ‘I know shit and you don’t.’ People like to be unique I guess.

Hagop Kourounian: There are articles all over the internet talking about ‘corpcore’ being the new quiet luxury… Do you think Industry helped to usher in this conversation a bit? What is it about corporate attire that people are attracted to right now?

Mickey Down: That’s interesting to think that it’s come back. When we started writing Industry we were in a moment where the need to be smarter at work was ebbing away. We were moving towards that midtown uniform of a vest with a shirt and no tie. Where I worked, everyone wore a tie but that was quite an old school place. I know where Konrad worked on the trading floor, ties were not that common. We reflect this in Season 2 but COVID totally killed the way people dressed on the trading floor in the bank. A mixture of work from home and not seeing clients in person, which was the reason you usually dressed up, stopped. I thought this kind of style had been maintained, you think people are dressing a bit more smarter than they were?

Hagop Kourounian: Yeah, even in my circles people are definitely wearing things with more collars and opting for footwear like Paraboots instead of sneakers. I’m also seeing so many articles about how last summer ‘quiet luxury’ was the big thing and this summer we’ve transitioned to more of a ‘corpcore’ aesthetic and now that you guys are the new HBO Sunday darling it feels like a passing of the guard, Succession to Industry and quiet luxury to corpcore.

Mickey Down: I would love to think we motivated that but I don’t think we did. I would say Succession probably motivated the quiet luxury revolution which is fucking annoying, not the show, but I still get old money this old money that on my Instagram. I think that’s ending now a bit.

Konrad Kay: It feels like a good con game that someone spent $1,200 on a polo shirt that’s totally blank. Someone’s really laughing at someone else in that exchange. It would be very funny if next time we go out in Dimes Square and all the 21-year-olds are all wearing suits. I think that’s cool.

Hagop Kourounian: I think next time you go, you might just see that!

Mickey Down: Really? I quite like that. For the Season 3 premiere, Todd Synder dressed the both of us and we had this kind of old baggy silhouette. Almost like a 90s Armani suit. They looked like some 1995 throwback.

Konrad Kay: There’s that guy who collaborates with Charli XCX called The Dare and he’s alway in a suit and sunglasses. He looks like Paul Banks in 2001, he looks so cool. I think it’s sick. That Todd Snyder suit was the best I’ve felt in terms of what I’m wearing in a long time. It was literally the fact that we were really dressed up but because it was a looser fit it didn’t feel like we were dressed up. It was super comfortable, we were wearing suits but it didn’t look like we were trying so hard. 

Mickey Down: I quite like wearing a suit cause we don’t get to do it anymore. It feels like a throwback to a time where people wore suits to go out for dinner which they don’t anymore. I’m excited to go back to Dimes Square and see everyone in a double breasted suit and an Hermes tie. Konrad, we should turn up to the set dressed as Christopher Nolan! 

Konrad Kay: That would be sick! Mick, maybe it’s an age thing because I’m like you. I feel like now I just put on a suit when I go to dinner which I never would’ve done three or four years ago. It’s just so easy as well.

Hagop Kourounian: This season you guys step into the director role as a duo! What are some things you learned about directing that maybe you didn’t realize before as showrunners. Did you find yourselves dressing differently on set?

Mickey Down: Something we learned while being showrunners was that your attitude and your temperament filters down to everyone. You can’t be pissed off about stuff or you can’t be having a bad day publicly because morale will just be totally extinguished if they feel like the people at the top of the call sheet are in any way feeling challenged. Your attitude toward everything has to be sunny and up. I feel like that was even more so when we were directing because there’s nowhere to run. When you’re showrunning you can just take off and produce a bit more of the show somewhere else or you can be editing or writing. When you’re on set people are looking to you for everything all the time. You have to have a really great disposition and you have to be able to talk to everyone. It’s an interpersonal job. Obviously it’s directing actors and talking to the camera department but it’s also talking to every single part of the crew and delegating and having a good rapport. I don’t see how you can be an introverted person and be a director. It’s an interpersonal job as much as it is a creative one.

Konrad Kay: We pretty much wore the same clothes…

Mickey Down: It was quite funny, we obviously dressed up for the set because there’s a photographer there… You don’t know if he’s gonna get you on a bad day. There were a few photos where he got me on a day where I couldn’t be arsed! You wanna be featured on Director Fits one day, you wanna be looking good. 

Hagop Kourounian: In your opinion, who are some of the best dressed directors/filmmakers?

Konrad Kay: Paul Thomas Anderson dresses insanely well and throughout all periods. You can look at BTS of any of his movies and know what film he’s shooting. Everything is so distinct and it’s so him. It’s very trendless. You see an image from Boogie Nights and think if someone dressed like that on set today they’d look amazing. He’s really good at dressing for his age as well. I just think he’s one of the best dressed guys around.

Mickey Down: Luca Guadagnino dresses very well. As a director but also just his own personal style is awesome. I’ve seen images of him on set but also do talks on stage. I went to the premiere of Challengers and he was wearing a LOEWE jacket and obviously it was made for him but it looked insane. You’ve actually posted this before but Steven Spielberg dressed incredibly well, the Stone Island, the RRL, all that stuff he looks awesome in. He looks like what a “director” would wear. He’s also obviously one of the first people to dress like that on set. 

Konrad Kay: There’s something cool when they look very utilitarian, like they don’t give a fuck about what they’re wearing. Fincher’s quite good if you look at him on the set of ALIEN 3 or Se7en, he’s got merch on his head from the actual movie and a lot of big coats that look like the sort of thing you wanna wear against the elements. I’m sure he’s not really thinking about what he’s wearing when he wakes up at 4 in the morning but he seems to look good.

Hagop Kourounian: Can we talk about the Decision to Leave moment in Episode 1? Mickey, I know you’re a huge fan of the film but what inspired that moment?

Mickey Down: I’m wearing your Decision to Leave t-shirt right now! I love this shirt, Konrad can attest I wore it on set a few times. It’s such a great fit, I love it…That character, Harper’s boyfriend, seems like the sort of guy that would keep talking about wanting to watch Decision to Leave but would never get around to it, which was a reflection of my experience with watching the movie. It felt like that kind of movie that’s obviously amazing and everyone’s telling you to watch it all the time but you never get around to it. I did finally get around to it and I loved it. But yeah, that’s it.

Hagop Kourounian: How would you guys each describe your personal style? What are some brands or stores you guys into right now?

Mickey Down: I’m very into Issey Miyake just because it’s super comfortable but it can also be very smart. It can be used in any context. I love their suits, I love their trousers, I love their hoodies. Everything they do is great. The other thing I like is Prada, Linea Rossa in particular. It’s like high end utilitarian to me. It feels sporty, I’m not sporty at all so it makes me feel very sporty when I’m skiing very badly. I also buy a lot of stuff online secondhand because it’s cheaper and I care a lot for the environment obviously.

Konrad Kay: I don’t know how to describe it, I used to wear a lot of Stone Island and CP Company. I think I just went a bit simpler with what I wear and maybe slightly preppier. I like brands like Auralee and Lemaire, stuff where it's good but you can’t tell what it is really unless you’re really looking. My favorite shops are CHCM and Neighbor Canada, shops that stock weird stuff that I wouldn’t necessarily come across normally. I really like a brand called James Coward, which I guarantee very few people have heard of. They make very small runs of stuff and it’s just fucking well made. I dry clean it and get a lot of wear out of it. They’re so so good, they’re expensive but I’ve bought three linen shirts from them and I’ve just worn them for two summers straight and I just dry clean them and every time they’re like a brand new shirt.