IN CONVERSATION WITH PETER VACK

Peter Vack is an actor, meme account admin, writer, and director from New York City. His second feature film, www.RachelOrmont.com, is playing in select theaters now and is one of my favorites of the year. His friend and collaborator, Eugene Kotlyarenko, called www.RachelOrmont.com a legendary Midnight Movie in the vein of El Topo, Pink Flamingos, Eraserhead… which I wholeheartedly agree with. Peter and I spoke via FaceTime while he sat and waited for his flight to depart from JFK. We talked about his obsession with Hedi Slimane's Dior Homme, longing for more movies set in the 2020s, the current state of costume design, wearing hats on set, what it takes to make an independent film, and so much more.

Hagop Kourounian: I'd love to start off by asking you about your own personal style and your relationship with clothing. How much time do you spend thinking about clothes?

Peter Vack: I've always been obsessed with clothing. My earliest memories almost all have to do with clothing. Like I remember wearing this outfit that I called a pirate suit, but it actually wasn't that at all, it was some sort of sweat suit that had a cartoon character on it. I would just wear it over and over and over to kindergarten like a uniform. I remember the sweatpants became tattered and I'm so grateful that my parents let me do that and they were very accepting of my idiosyncratic dressing style. I think it really did lay a foundation for a love of fashion. I've always seen fashion as a part of my own personal expression. I remember distinctly in high school, this was like the early hipster 1.0 era, I became really into vintage. I became super into vintage Levi's and was obsessed with all of the minutia. Orange tab Levi's, Big E Levi's, inside rivets, hidden seams. My greatest find from that era was a pair of Levi's XX's with the hidden rivets, the single stitching, and a little bit of the leather tag still on. The Big E tag had been destroyed and I actually just sold those pants to some kids on my block that were hawking denim. I needed some cash, and I told them I have some things that I think you might like. I sold them a Big E indigo Levi's jacket because I don't really wear jean jackets at all, and they were like, ‘whoa, where did you get these.’ I got them for like, 60 or 80 dollars at a flea market. I didn't sell them for that much, I think I sold it to them for like $200. I've been in a little bit of a selling clothes moment and even if I'm not getting the best price, I sometimes just like knowing that these cool pieces are maybe gonna find their way into the hands of someone that will actually wear them. 

Around the time I was a junior in high school, I discovered Dior Homme by Hedi Slimane. I graduated high school in 2005 and I think he started designing there in 2004 so it was like primetime Dior Homme Hedi Slimane. That was when I realized that I could like high fashion, and I was just totally obsessed. I remember visiting the store on Madison Avenue and I couldn't afford anything but just seeing those clothes and trying them on was like going to church for me. I think I bought one pair of jeans that I've lost and I bought a tie which I still have. I pulled that out of storage recently. It's incredible, because that silhouette is fully back now. I hate to say this because I don't want to contribute to them getting valued properly, but Dior Homme pieces on Grailed are so much less expensive than Hedi for Saint Laurent or Hedi for Celine. 

I went through some periods of wearing a uniform. When I lived in Bushwick, I just wore all black, you know? I definitely like rejected fashion too, for long swaths of time. When you can't afford clothes you just have to settle on a uniform that works. But anytime that I have any extra funds, I do allocate an inadvisable portion of that to buying nice pieces. The way I justify it actually does work for me because in moments where I don't have the money to splurge, I still have these items that I really like and make me feel great. I genuinely cherish them, you know? I'm definitely someone who has thoughts about materialism. I do sometimes look at materialism writ large with a bit of disgust, but that doesn't apply to fashion, I just adore it. And even things that I've spent way too much money on, that I still have and love, I never regret those purchases ever. 

Hagop Kourounian: I’ve heard you talk about designers and brands like Hedi Slimane, Dior Homme, Jean Paul Gaultier, Prada, Versace and more. Do you keep up with couture shows and what’s happening on the runway?

Peter Vack: I am interested in it. I haven't been keeping up as much as I would like to, but I did just look at the… is it Jonathan Anderson for Dior?

Hagop Kourounian: Yeah, it just came out yesterday.

Peter Vack: I was actually pretty into it. I was surprised. I think I have like a, ‘oh, I could never love any collection for them as much as Hedi' mentality but you know, obviously the shorts are costumey, but I liked some of the peacoats and blazers. And the overall vision, I was like, wait a second, ‘I love this.’ I liked the way he was doing these simple sweaters with that old school Dior logo just sort of starkly on them. I saw a green zip up that said Dior right at the sternum, I was like, wow, you know what? Honestly, I would rock that. For me it's hard to want to rock something with a high fashion label right on the chest. But my brain kind of broke cause he sort of figured out a way to make that wearable. There was a peacoat I liked, if I had five racks or whatever much it would cost I would do it. I love it. What label did he do before this? Was it his own label?

Hagop Kourounian: He still does his own label J.W. Anderson, but he was at LOEWE for like 10 years. That's what catapulted him.

Peter Vack: Oh yeah, which I never fucked with. I know it was so, so big. It felt so zeitgeisty that label, I never hated it but I just never was drawn to it. Funny you should mention JPG. I love JPG. Certainly not every piece you can wear, but some of my favorite things are JPG. I have some jeans from him. I would say the mild pieces from him are in my wheelhouse and have that je ne sais quoi that I will fuck with. Where do I buy this stuff? I've had phases with Grailed, even though there's a lot of heartbreaks on Grailed, because you can never be sure. I like James Veloria in Manhattan. I love Lara Koleji. There's a new place I just became really into called P.Principle. I think it's a guy from Belgium who's very successful there with the store, who just opened up a bigger store in my neighborhood and they have a lot of great stuff. They had an ‘06 Spring/Summer Hedi leather and I actually never see Dior Homme Hedi leather in person. Back in the day, sure, but like it's something you see on Grailed. I don't think they made that many of each of those leathers. That is still a grail for me, to get a Hedi Dior Homme era leather. They had one there and I was really obsessed with it, but it just was too small. It’s just one size too small.

Hagop Kourounian: Yeah, that's part of the heartbreak you have to be ready to face with vintage. If you find it, you have to hope it actually fits.

Peter Vack: Yeah, and you have to hope you can afford it! You know, I was into Demna too, like in 2020 and 2021, but I gotta say that silhouette has just become so… It's so funny what happens with silhouettes. It used to be that the basic guy was wearing skinny jeans and now basic guys are in full jeans. And I think that's all Demna. You even see GAP doing huge parachute pants, which I like in theory. Even when those silhouettes were very avant-garde, the second they became mainstream it became a lot harder for me personally to wanna wear them. That's the thing I also love about fashion, it is really fun how fluid it is. I'm definitely the kind of person who looks back on things I used to wear and I'm sickened by it, you know what I mean?

But sometimes it works out, like these sunglasses I'm wearing, they're Tart Arnel’s, which was a brand that went defunct in the '60s. I think Johnny Depp used to wear them or something. I think they're also in Benjamin Button. I bought them in 2012 and I paid what I thought was way too much money for them. It was like 200 bucks, I was splurging. Then I didn't wear them for a decade. They were not my taste then. Suddenly this year I was like, you know what? Now I really like them again. I just so happened to look them up on eBay. These frames now are like $1300 bucks… Of course, clothes are not a good investment, for the most part, they always devalue. But every once in a while, you do find something that goes up in value or at least maintains value.

What were the collections that you were really into that are happening now? Which ones were you excited about?

Hagop Kourounian: I'm pretty excited about Ralph, I think they showed Purple Label in Milan yesterday and it looks so good. 

Peter Vack: Like Ralph Lauren?

Hagop Kourounian: Yeah.

Peter Vack: I mean, I love Ralph Lauren.

Hagop Kourounian: It's impossible to go wrong with. I personally only wear some of the button downs. I'm not like a big suit guy or anything, but just from a visual standpoint, I feel like he always kills it. It always looks so classic. Not to say that it always looks the same, but I feel like it's just how the average guy with good taste should dress, you know?

Peter Vack: Yeah, I'm glad you brought up Ralph Lauren because I forgot about my Ralph Lauren era, which is a travesty, which is like sacrilege. In high school, my uniform was vintage Levi's 646 that I bought dead stock. I wore them every day, so much so that I repaired them, repaired them, and kept repairing them. They were just like molded to me and really like almost belonged in a museum. Then I wore snakeskin cowboy boots with thick scales, which I can't find anymore. But my big splurge in high school was a Purple Label, brown kind of faux distressed leather jacket that really fit with this kind of urban cowboy aesthetic that I was fucking with. It was insanely reduced, you know, like 90% off, which was kind of a lot for me at the time, but I still have it. That's another store I would go into and just chop it up with the people that work there, you know? Also the thing about Ralph is the vintage selection in his stores is so pricey, obviously, but the curation in his stores are insane. The horse-eyed leather jacket, motorcycle jacket, the old Rolexes, the turquoise jewelry… I think if I was coming up with my top 15 artists in any medium of the 20th century, I think Ralph Lauren would be on that list, you know? He's just a visionary.

Hagop Kourounian: I love that he sells the vintage too. I would assume a lot of those vintage things are reference pieces to the actual collection. So I think it's sick that he has both next to each other. But wait a second, I wanted to touch on your high school life a little bit. It seemed like you were a really tasteful high schooler. What were you reading? What were you watching? What were you consuming that led you down this path?

Peter Vack: That's a good question. I think I really am like a good hipster. I'm a good classic hipster in the way that I can notice something that is ahead and pick it up. I'm a good trend follower. And you know what, my oldest friend, Gabe Milman, shout out Gabe. He had this completely advanced style. I was just immediately like, ‘I wanna dress like that.’ I was like, ‘Gabe, where do you get your 646 Levi's?’ And he took me to a place, rest in peace, called Filth Mart. Jay Z has rapped about Filth Mart jeans. It was on Avenue A, I forget where exactly, but it was when that neighborhood was still a little dicey to go to. Now it's so gentrified, but Filth Mart was like an iconic outpost for ‘60s, ‘70s, and early ‘80s vintage. They were like the only place in the city that you could buy these deadstock Levi's. They even had the tags on them when you bought them, they were so cool. The vibe was to wear them in and this was before APCs became super popular. This idea of breaking in your own deadstock jeans went kind of mainstream. But it was really because of Gabe, I think he was inspired by the way Keith Richards dressed. He was just inspired by the Stones and that music, I'm kind of like limited when it comes to music, but I think through him, he was just such an avant-garde iconoclastic dresser and I just picked it up from him. Then that just pilled me on the idea of clothes and then I just went running with it.

Hagop Kourounian: Hell yeah, shout out to Gabe.

Peter Vack: Shout out to Gabe. Oh, and then another guy, who now lives on my block. Eddie Bell, I always pick things up from like forward thinking tastemakers just around me. This guy Eddie, who went to a really preppy private school. He was a total punk, you know, like with the skin tight jeans and the DIY jacket. It blew me away. I had never seen jeans that tight. No one had. I was like, Eddie, ‘where did you get those jeans?’ I remember I went and I got them and they were so tight, they were like painted on. This was before that silhouette was big. I wore it in my summer camp and I remember people being like, what the fuck? Are you wearing tights? I was like, yeah, these are punk jeans. Like, get with it. These are cool. I would just pick things up from friends who had advanced taste and run with it.

Hagop Kourounian: Yeah, you gotta always keep people smarter than you in your circle and learn.

Peter Vack: Totally, every great idea that I feel I've ever managed to stumble upon is inspired by someone great. You know, and that's the beauty of living. You take great ideas and great style templates from people who are forward thinking. Then maybe one day, I'll be that to somebody, you know? That's just the way the world works. It's so nice.

Hagop Kourounian: Who do you think are the best dressed filmmakers? Or maybe some movies that influenced or inspired your personal style.

Peter Vack: When I think of movies, I really love the movies that JPG did the costumes for. Two of my favorite films of all time and very aspirational in every sense are The Fifth Element and The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & Her Lover. As a filmmaker myself, I aim to one day be able to collaborate with one sort of iconic designer to make a bespoke collection for a film. It doesn't happen that much anymore. Along those lines, I really do love Tom Ford's movies. I love the completeness of the vision and that they're always wearing Tom Ford pieces. You know, it's funny, I'm blanking on filmmaker style. I'm totally blanking.

Hagop Kourounian: The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & Her Lover is an unbelievable movie. Some of the suiting in that movie is so epic. In that crazy red hallway scene one of the character’s has cuffed his suit jacket sleeves and it’s lined with this beautiful plaid. It just looks gorgeous.

Peter Vack: You know, yes, you're right. I'm getting chills remembering that. I hate to make negative generalizations, but when I watch many mainstream movies, I feel that there's a lack of attention to detail with the clothes. It's such a shame because everything in front of the lens is your baby when you're making a movie. That movie, for example, it's like each suit is so special. It's worth pausing and studying. As a filmmaker myself with Rachel Ormont we really did our best to make every look, even though we didn't have that budget, feel like eye candy. You really ask so much of an audience these days to sit down and watch a film. I feel like you want to show them that you care about every detail. Also, as an actor sometimes I really do feel like the clothing is shortchanged. They spend a lot of time on the lighting, a lot of time on the set, and then I always wonder, ‘why are we not really so careful and loving in our attention to the detail with the clothes?’ After all, it's what your heart and soul of the picture is dressed in, you know? I hate to be overly generalizing in a negative way, but I do feel that the sartorial vision in cinema right now is somewhat lacking.

Hagop Kourounian: I agree with you generally. But I think with any kind of statement or rule, there's a few exceptions, right?

Peter Vack: Yeah, who are the exceptions?

Hagop Kourounian: I think the costume designers, Miyako Bellizzi and Heidi Bivens are really great.

Peter Vack: Remind me again what those names have done? 

Hagop Kourounian: Well, Miyako's biggest contribution to costumes is her work in Uncut Gems. Sandler's suit became instantly iconic, it's a Halloween costume, blah, blah, blah.

Peter Vack: Also, you know, my friend Natasha Newman Thomas, who did The Idol I really liked.

Hagop Kourounian: The Idol was fantastic, yeah. I agree. Heidi Bivens did the costumes for Euphoria which is something that people look towards for inspiration and it's something that the next generation will watch and want to emulate Alexa Demie or whatever.

Peter Vack: Wait, remind me again who did the costumes in Uncut Gems?

Hagop Kourounian: Uncut Gems was Miyako Bellizzi.

Peter Vack: Did Miyako do Good Time too?

Hagop Kourounian: I believe so, yeah.

Peter Vack: Those are iconic outfits. Yeah, the ECKO stuff, the South Pole stuff. As a New Yorker, all that shit is so nostalgic. It hits a bull's eye.

Hagop Kourounian: Also, I feel like maybe because a lot of things are period pieces now, there’s a lot of the attention to detail that goes to making sure things look like the period that you’re trying to depict on screen. So I feel like that kind of takes away from things looking iconic and of the current moment. Jonathan Anderson, who we just talked about, has worked with Luca Guadagnino on his last three movies now.

Peter Vack: Was it Challengers? The Challengers look was great.

Hagop Kourounian: Yeah, it was. I think he did Bones and All as well as his latest movie, Queer.

Peter Vack: I didn't like Bones and All…

Hagop Kourounian: I hated that movie haha.

Peter Vack: Challengers is a masterpiece and the outfits were really lovely.

Hagop Kourounian: Yeah, the thing about it though is that it's not in that same vein as a JPG where you're gawking at the costumes or even have runway looks in the movie. It's more about the fact that he got that sleazeball tennis guy look on point.

Peter Vack: Perfect. Yeah, perfect. You know, you're bringing up a good point. One of the things that I, and I know Eugene Kotlyarenko laments this too, is that so few films seem to be aiming at the present moment. So we're kind of missing this thing that cinema does so well, which is like, preserve the style of a given time. You know what I mean? Definitely Euphoria does that. I know there are examples, but that’s why I love watching a movie like Taxi Driver because you're like, ‘wow, this is how people dress in like the seventies.’ And it does feel like a lot of modern filmmakers are kind of leaning on period pieces, which is great, some of them I really like. I love Nosferatu. I thought the visual world that Eggers always creates is good but I long for more movies set in the 2020s because cinema's such a great time capsule that we can look back and remember how we dressed. 

Hagop Kourounian: Yeah, man, it's the only form of time travel we have. I wanna get into www.RachelOrmont.com a bit. Before we get into the movie itself, I wanted to talk about some of the photos you sent me of you directing on set. What was your thought process like getting dressed for set everyday? Was there something specific you were wearing that kind of put you in that director mindset? 

Peter Vack: Yeah, well, we shot in July in New York, so it was really hot. So my main consideration was comfort, I was always in shorts. In the summer in the city, I'm always in a tank top. So in those photos I'm really in just shorts and tank tops but with some interesting pieces thrown in. I was wearing some kind of '90s jean shorts. They were actually my exes shorts but I really loved them. I'm blanking on the brand. Also a lot of just Hanes A-tanks. But also in there was like a Hedi Slimane checker, that was sort of like a very Warped Tour, checkered Vans print. I wore that on the days that we were shooting with Chloe Cherry and it was very pop star because I wanted myself to feel like a pop star. I wanted her to look at me and be like, whoa, look at his shirt, you know? I wore a very thin nylon Prada shirt from the year 2000. That was like my sweater because we were shooting at a very air conditioned theater space. When I was in a buying spree of shoes, I bought these bizarre pumas at KITH. I didn’t even like them but I wore them every day because there was something about them that felt almost sci-fi. Probably because they were so gaudy and overly designed. They were so new that I just felt very supportive. I hadn't worn them before and I have not worn them since. They were shoes that just were on my feet during the shoot. 

Let me think, what else? Hats. I'm not really a baseball hat guy, but when you're directing, you do sort of want a hat. It feels so cliché, but there's something about the way it focuses you. So I was wearing a hat I bought in Chinatown that said happiness on it with a Chinese character. There's no happier time. I mean, there's no more stressful time, but truly there's no happier time than when you're making a film. I wore a No Agency New York hat, which is my great friend, Alex, and Chloe's modeling agency. That felt very New York. And then just like a hat that said Times Square, which was special to me because in my first film, Assholes, the centerpiece scene is the character sort of terrorizing people in Times Square. It just was like a very subtle personal homage to my last film. 

Hagop Kourounian: I love it. I love what you said about the hat too, because I spoke to Oz Perkins a couple of months ago, and he said the same thing about hats while directing. He says pulling the brim down allows him to escape in his own thoughts for a second and think something through, then he'll lift the hat back up, and get back to work.

Peter Vack: It's an emotional thing. Yeah, you see directors and hats, and it's some sort of emotional safety. It creates some sort of way of capturing thoughts. I know it's very mystical, but it's true.

Hagop Kourounian: I feel like if you were drawing a cartoon caricature of a nondescript director, you would draw a hat on them.

Peter Vack: Terrence Malick comes to mind, he has the wide brim hats. I know Spielberg always had a trucker style hat. And directors are just often in hats, and I don't even like hats. I don't like wearing hats. I only wear them when it's boiling hot to keep the sun out of my eyes or on set, I was like fuck it, I need this hat.

Hagop Kourounian: I read a quote from you that said filmmaking is holistically satisfying. You also said it's the closest a guy can get to giving birth. I'd love for you to elaborate on that for a second. And just now you said it was the most stressful time but also the happiest.

Peter Vack: Well, when I say it’s the most stressful time, it really is the impossible art form. It is the only art form that requires a whole army of people, that requires huge financial resources. It requires so many different kinds of skills. It requires creative skills, it requires organizational skills, it requires people skills. It requires skills that you don't always even find in one person. You know what I mean? A director has to be a good manager of people, a good manager himself, a good communicator both logistically and emotionally. Every single aspect of yourself is challenged while making a film. I often say it's like planning a circus that has to take place in succession for 20 to 40 days. War analogies are overdone, but it feels that way because if you slip up, the results are metaphorically deadly, especially when you're an independent filmmaker. Independent film is such a gamble because if you miss anything, there's no going back. We were shooting in a theater in Union Square that we could never afford to get back in there. So the stakes feel enormously high and I think that the prep of a movie is excruciating. It is so challenging.

One thing that I think first time filmmakers find out the hard way is that you can just explain to someone your idea. You can explain to the DP your idea, you can explain to the costume designer your idea, any of your department heads your idea, and invariably, even if they're a genius, their idea of what you said will not be your idea. It basically takes like 100, I would say, conversations with each department head to get everyone truly thinking like you. The beautiful thing is once you do that, if you really put in the work, then at some point, everyone is thinking better than you. Your vision and their genius will merge and their ideas will be exactly what you would want or better. I've seen this happen as an actor so many times, the director will get to a moment where the costume designer will show them a costume and they’re like, ‘that's not what I said.’ Yeah, but did you really talk about it? Did you go back and forth and did you edit? That aspect of prep, finding all the people that you need, finding all the locations, finding all the actors, that's really challenging and painful every step of the way with almost no pleasure. But on set, because you've done that work and your whole team is there, it's pure pleasure. Because even the problems feel so exciting because everyone's there to get it done. So there's no greater experience than being on set. Even your disasters on set feel like the way a roller coaster feels, to me at least, it’s just so exciting. And then post can feel hellish again. But you are a filmmaker for these very magical, holy weeks on set where you are in the best case, working with people who become your greatest friends, who have committed themselves to your vision as if it's their vision. You're literally making a dream come true and all of your problems just feel exciting. The birth analogy fits because labor is so painful and making a movie is so painful, but it definitely outlasts you.

Hagop Kourounian: That's beautiful, man. I've never seen a movie like www.RachelOrmont.com before. It truly felt like an event when I saw it and I feel like there hasn't been a movie like that in the last few years where I wanted to tell everybody I know about it. My fiancée and I loved it. We can't stop talking about it. We still reference moments from it even a few weeks removed from when we first saw it. I wanted to know how you're able to accurately capture the dark depths of social media. From the sounds like the recurring pluuuuuug ad lib to the O. T. Genasis inspired score to the crazy abstract depiction of content creation. How are you able to tell this brain rotted, chronically online story? And I know that's not what the whole movie is about, but I feel like that's a part of the movie that does such an incredible job of telling the story of right now, of what it's like to be online right now and to be obsessed with being online. 

Peter Vack: All these things kind of came at various points during the process. One of the oldest ideas was content creation as theater. This movie was a long time in the making. And that was all good because in that time in my frustration, I became like a meme admin myself and giving myself over to posting allowed me to understand something about internet content, not just as an outsider, but as an insider. And then I knew that basically it's impossible to capture the internet writ large because it's just so vast. So what I did was I treated myself sometimes as a conduit between my own timelines and what was in front of the camera. And we were lucky since we shot in one place, we could do a lot of improving. When everyone came into that theater, I didn't tell them what the movie was about. I just told them that they were playing an anthropomorphized message board or a comment section. I would prompt them very minimally, I’d be like ‘Okay, brag, okay, boast or shit post.’ I was also very lucky, it was the year 2022, and becoming chronically online had sort of become mainstream. So people had ingested a lot of internet demons and this was cathartic for them. 

I'm not sure that this would have worked in 2024, and it wouldn't have worked in 2021 or 2020, but we just sort of hit it right. I would sometimes tell them things I actually knew I needed. People were just very free and playful, and I gave them a very long leash. And I would also sometimes feed people lines directly from things I was scrolling on Twitter. I'm gonna mine everyone's brain rot and I'm also gonna even scroll my phone and feed my lines from my phone into people's mouths. A mixture of this is what created this effect you like. Then in sound design, I love 2010's rap so me and my editor played with speeding up and slowing down the O. T. Genasis instrumental. Then we had a great rap beat producer named Almighty from Atlanta do that. Then we had Eli Keszler, the great composer, do the more cinematic cues. This meme artist Justin LaPuff, who is one of the most prolific memers had a big library of all these vintage YouTube and meme sounds. Then he did a pass. Then we took his library with more traditional sound designers and used them even more, and then we had traditional sound designers for the cinematic sound design that is more subconscious. One of the hardest things to get right about the Internet is that a lot of times filmmakers want their voice to seem so coherent. Of course, I wanted some coherence, but I also really wanted there to seem like there was a multiplicity of voices the way there is on your timeline. The only way I could achieve that was by just giving as many people as I could, permission to ad lib, and then using it. Then using as many artists as I could get access to in post. And luckily enough, I think we created what we wanted.

Hagop Kourounian: Amazing, man. The end result is fucking beautiful. 

Peter Vack: Dude, I'm so glad we're friends now, because I was always a big fan, and let's definitely kick it again when I'm in LA. Talking to you is really easy. It's not always...

Hagop Kourounian: Oh, thank you, man. 

Peter Vack: You're a really good interviewer. This was so fun. I mean, for me, it's movies and clothes. Especially clothes. These are the topics I fucking love. 

Hagop Kourounian: Hell yeah, man. Me too. 

Peter Vack: I’m sort of not like a deep cinephile. That's like one of my dirty secrets. I love movies, obviously. But my experience in movies is like being in them and making them. I watch them, but not like some of these guys. 

Hagop Kourounian: Yeah, me too. There's too many movies to have seen them all. But I know the work of directors that I love really well, and I'm able to really talk about those. Thank you, for your time man. I should be in New York before the end of the year, maybe I'll come see you instead of you coming to see me. 

Peter Vack: Yeah, that'd be great too. 

Hagop Kourounian: Have a safe flight!

Peter Vack: Thank you, dude. Bye!